Hi Mark

One thing to point out. One needs to start of on the right foot with the
pouch method or problems may arise. I mean to say this; the pouch in itself
needs to become inoculated by the microflora of kefir. And the pouch should
be sterile and chemical free before it's first initial use!

The inoculation needs to occur within the first few batches in it's initial
use. If any weed organisms take a hold in this first inoculation stage, then
problems may arrise. This may happen if the pouch was previously infected
prior using or making the pouch.

If your pouch is fairly sterile, and it becomes properly inoculated with
kefir, then it is very difficult to have any problems there after. This
inoculation should only take a few batches of kefir making. One may help the
inoculation along by placing a newly made sterile pouch (with the grains
intact), into some freshly strained kefir, left in this for a time of say 5
minutes to 1 hour.

With this in mind, let's get to the nitty-gritty of your problemo and
possible solution <kefir-sip-n' hah... then slapping tongue to upper cleft
pallet... soprano HA- haaa- haaah>...

mark@... wrote:

> I need some pouch advise.  I found a cotton vegetable bag at the
> health food store with a very loose mesh weave.  I cut off the corner
> of it and used it as a pouch for my kefir grains.  Everything was
> fine for a few days and then it started to smell terrible.  Dominic
> suggested that it might be a yeast or bacteria similar to what you
> might find on bad yogurt.  So what am I doing wrong or more important
> what should I do right?

When I answered your e-mail the other day, I was under the impression you
were using a cloth material pouch. Not knowing the origins of the bag and
material it's made from, I would suggest that one be very careful with any
materials that are not made as a "food grade" or for preparing food stuff
etc.

I find that cotton gauze used as bandage or wound dressings have worked in
the past with good results. These are found at most pharmacies (or "Drug
store" in the US?). This material has a nice wide open weave. But these need
to be washed very well before adding in the grains (like any other
material).

After making a pouch (pre adding the grains ), I suggest one first soak the
material  in a mild bleach solution for one day, then boil in this solution
for 5 minutes (I use wood ash lye instead of bleach). Rinse well with clear
water then add 2 - 3 tablespoons of vinegar in 1 cup of water and boil for 1
min. Then rinse with clear water... ( flat material such as gauze may be
ironed at a high setting before adding the grains in the pouch)... Presto
pronto for kefir grains.

> Large or small pouch?

The pouch size needs to be large enough so the grains are not crowded. I
find a pouch size 2 to 3 X the volume of grains is good.

> Do you completely submerge the pouch in the milk?

Yes. The pouch needs to be kept submerged in it's first few batche. When
using a pouch, the kefir must be shaken at least twice throughout the day.

Once the pH of the milk falls (acidic), the kefir it's self should inhibit
weeds from growing, if ever any part of the pouch floats out of the milk.
I also suggest that some previous kefir is left in as a buffer when adding
fresh milk to make the next batch of kefir (if using the one jar method).
If using a two jar method, removing the pouch from one ready made kefir jar,
to a new clean jar with fresh milk, the jar is shaken for about 10 seconds
to unblock the pouch's holes, which will also help to inoculate the milk
with any kefir that retains in the pouch!

> How often do you clean the pouch and what do you do with the kefir
> grains in the meantime?

The cleaning of the pouch is determining on how blocked the holes become.
One may be able to keep the pouch's hole unblocked by shaking the jar in the
renewing of milk stage. But if this seems to not unblock most of the holes,
because the weave is too tight, then washing may need to be performed after
every few batches or so. This may be done by placing the pouch in a bowl of
cold clean chlorine free water using a clean utensil such as a fork or
spoon, or with clean hands, then move the pouch about in this water. No need
to go crazy here, just try and loosen off the curd from the material.

> What materials have people been using successfully?
> Do you let the curd keep accumulating in the pouch or do you try to
> squeeze it out?

You may shake the jar steadily with a slight vigor to try and
releaX-Mozilla-Status: 0009 milk. Or once in the new milk, you may gently
squeeze the
pouch a few times against the wall of the jar, using a spoon or fork.

> Any suggestions would be most appreciated.
>
> Thanks
> Mark

Please pay the cosmotic e-cashier with thanx on leaving
Dominic